Leppotone

I just sent a little e-mail.....

Holy Shit!

I just can't believe this would still go in an overt fasion in this day and age.  I hope the Gazzette gets wind of this.

I always knew that place sucked, but I didnt think it was this bad.  I had always wanted to try their pizza, but after this I'll stick with Martini's.

Unbelievable.

Composing my e-mail in my noggin right now.

Where does one send an email about this matter too???


As many people as possible need to know about this.

Go to their website. There is a "contact" page.

I told them that not only is their behavior unacceptable, demeaning, and possibly illegal (pretty sure you can't assault people), I also told them that we live in a diverse (sorta) community and to refuse service to anyone is a faulty business model.

Now if we're talking shift managers and thick-necked bouncer types, I can totally imagine the ugliness of bigotry rearing its microcephalic head. I may go into Shakespeare's one more time specifically to ask Scott about the atmosphere there. And relay the story to him (omitting all names, of course).

Hm!

If the co-owner is a stand-up guy, those workers will be gone in a heartbeat. Still, I can't justify goin' back there. I'm passing word along to a good number of my colleagues - lot of community connections among them, word will spread fast.

Kalamazoo Ave. is just getting lamer and lamer.

This all seem SO farfetched. I mean, do people really treat each other like that? I'm not saying that I don't believe you commenters and reporters, but I find this all so hard to believe.

Of course, I am, as you all know, a handsome Native American bad-ass who pretty much bleeds red, white, blue and STRAIGHT, so maybe I am not the person to comment on all this.

Thick-necked bouncer types have acted like, well, thick-necked goons, on many occasions and in many locations. It has always pretty-much served to make me want to stay away (see The Intersection in Grand Rapids).

I am happy to see all of you writing letters and publicly exclaiming your indignation. I am going to be spending most of this evening fine-tuning this Web site, so I thank you all for your energy in that direction.

That all being said, our sweet little city offers many food-and-drink-oriented places eager for my disposable income. So, this appears to be a problem with a simple personal solution.

I will henceforth get my processed asiago cheese spread directly from Gordon Food Service. Skip the middle man, raise the middle finger!

Nothing in Rete's report of the incident mentioned either of the owners as being the "boss" involved that night. It is completely possible they had nothing to do with it and maybe did not know they had hired total jackasses. And she was a frequent customer and an acquaintance of the owners, and she obviously (esp. for those of you who know her) never had an inkling that this unforgivably backward, basely xenophobic, gag-inducing redneck de facto policy of accepted and encouraged -- not to mention violent -- casual intolerance existed. For her not to have ever seen it until now, well, it might speak to the people working the night of the incident and not the owners being at fault. Except for the owners' either turning a blind eye to inexcusably neolithic behavior, if they did, or the owners' knowingly letting privileged white cavepeople run the show.

Sometimes you get a bad apple.   If the owners take a stand and make it right with the people abused then I'd be willing to give a second chance.  But ONLY if they make it right and take some action to ensure that this behavior is not tollerated in the future.  Covert racism and discrimination exists everywhere to some degree, still in the end the owners must be held responsible.  Lets see if they act responsibly, in the meanwhile on with the shit-storm! 

a) Please don't generalize all the bar/door staff as intolerant. I know two of them and they're actually very open and accepting people. I doubt they were working that night, or if anything, I doubt they understood why there was a commotion that required their attention. I agree with OFMG - look to the owner to ultimately ask forgiveness and make the situation right.

b) ID-wise, they are ridiculous. I had a legit military ID rejected at Shake's...let's get serious here...I can access military bases around the country but you're going to deny me free popcorn and a Strongbow. But also I've had my passport rejected at places that serve adult beverages - that's a step worse.

c) Not all of the door staff is caucasian. There have been a few comments that would indicate that people on this forum believe otherwise. Just a quick check on your own prejudices...

i'm a man of the crayon

but i love their chimichangas.....

at the R & R in detroit....gay bar....people sit accross the street and shoot at patrons exiting the bar with pellette guns....and when you call the cops?.....guess what....they dont show up and or care....

alas...sorry to read this thread...

im glad you folks are enlightened and the likes.....warms the cackles....

i sent em a lil note....letting them know i live on the other side of the state and found out about the nature of their business....im tired of homophobes.....exhausted by them actually....those who tollerate homophobes and racists?..im done with that shit....ive never been to shakespears....but i was under the impression that it was gay friendly....alas...sad......

people who feel threatened by gay people should spend sometime in the mirror examining themselves......poor unhappy people.....

The service is terrible, the bouncers are wrong and dangerous; the owners may be nice [personally don’t think so but I don’t know them that well], but they don't have control of their staff.  They will not receive any more money from me or my friends.  I would like to see a police report filed and possibly legal action taken.  A bouncer has no right to hit anyone that didn’t hit them first.

Did she cheat with a woman? 'Cause, you know, that could have started the ball rolling...

Actually, I recieved a very sincere and concerned response to my email from "Ted," who seemed to be a stand-up guy. I'm confident he'll do the right thing, whatever that thing may be.

That said, I never really loved that place anyhoo.

Now this is just a suggestion only.

I say we get the word out to many people as possible and launch a boycott.

I would be less interested in starting a boycott at this point then I would using this forum, e-mails, etc. to educate the owners about what their staff is doing and encourage the owners to deal with the offending staff, especially given that the owners have seemed to be sincerely bothered by this.  However, I think the window of opportunity for making those changes should be rather small....

This is Ted from Shakespeare's Pub.

I would like to take the time to write on your blog to let all of you know that have not contacted us directly that we are very serious about coming up with answers to this incident.  For those of you that have contacted us, again, I am sorry this has burdened you.  Scott or myself were not witnesses to what had transpired at the Pub.  We have heard this story and we have heard stories from our employees.  The stories do not coincide.  Of course that seems convenient to look away, but, I promise to not do that.  What I think is important to note is that there are two sides to every story, and if discriminating comments were made on both sides, than both sides are at fault.  They do not cancel each other out. If this appears to be the case at it concerns any employee of Shakespeare's Pub, they will no longer be employed at Shakespeare's.  I don't care if my employees were retaliating to comments posed to them or not, they will not be a part of our Pub any longer. 

Shakespeare's was created to be a gathering place for EVERYONE.  We will not tolerate discrimination in our staff. 

I thank those of you that took the time to voice your concerns, and if there is any other concerns I can address, please feel free to contact me via email or phone. 

Sincerely,

Ted

Shakespeare's Pub

(269)488-7782

It is good to know that these allegations are being taken seriously by the owners. As I hope is evident from what you've read here, we are not vindictive, self-righteous big dummies; we are thoughtful, ethically minded people who care about fairness and kindness and are more than willing to make sure injustices see the light of day. Retaliation and/or vindictiveness, whatever the case may be, is not our game. I think it's safe to say that we just want others to play fair, because we try our best to play fair, and treating one another fairly and with kindness is becoming a lost art. Please know that we are not out for blood or damage. If it turns out we were wrong, or misinformed, we will be the first to admit it and spread THAT word -- and be happy that nothing that horrible DID happen. If it turns out that the story we heard was correct, well, at least the problem is being addressed and the weasels will have scattered. I appreciate your taking this seriously and hope that you continue to communicate with us. (Leppo folks: Sorry if I am out of line here when speaking inclusively--if you don't like it, say so and I'll edit it.)

Not out of line, Anzh... you crystallized my thoughts nicely. It is heartening to see a conscientous business person honestly responding to his patrons' concerns.

I second Angie's thoughts wholeheartedly as well.  I want to thank Ted as well for his speedy response and kind words. 

I would just like to say that I have been in contact with Ted from Shakespeare's and trying to help him get to the bottom of this. He has been keeping me and Rita in the loop of his investigation.

Unfortunately they do not have surveillance tape, and I have no witnesses that I know to back my story up, only their word versus mine. This is why I felt I could not file a police report. If you happen to know anyone that saw this incident (other than the bouncers) please get them on the forum or some in communication with me so they can back my story up.

I can't even begin to tell you how traumatizing this incident was. I've never really experienced any form of discrimination in this country before. My jaw literally dropped when I heard this man yelling derogatory comments at me.

This issue will not be resolved I'm afraid. Therefore I will never step foot into that establishment ever again. The worst part is I work right next door and I don't know what those thugs would do if they saw me in the parking lot now. I wish Ted had enough sense to fire the people that did this.

For the record, the wait staff and the bartenders have always been kind and courteous to me and my friends. I use to go into Shakespeare's at least 3 times a week for lunch and a couple times a weeks for drinks right after work.

The atmosphere changes drastically when the bouncers show up. This is not the first incident that I have heard of about these guys. The more people I talk to about what happened the more stories I hear about these Road House wannabe's.

Get a consultant Ted. Get someone who knows what they are doing when it comes to securtiy and start over with your door staff. Be responsible about this, even if the current bouncers are your friends.

has he done anything to right the wrong? I'm not saying he hasn't, I just haven't had a response from him saying he has taken some action.

If you have ever been to Shakespeares Pub, then you know the welcoming atmosphere this place possesses.  Not only does this pub openly accept any person that walks into the door, regardless of race, sex, or sexual preferance, but also employes people to that same standard. This is such a diverse and wonderful place and I am disgusted by the idea that people are actually considering the idea that people at this establishment completly "gay bashed" somebody- whether he was gay or not. This man was obviously kicked out because of his obnoxious drunken-ness and is now making up stories to make excuses for his behavior.  I have no doubt that the truth will come to light, and people who are a fan of shakespeares will continue to support Scott, Ted, and the amazing staff behind Shakespeares. So keep your head up high and let's support our favorite pub on kalamazoo ave. and not the lies affect our happiness

hey "D"......the way you say "I don't know what those THUGS would do if they saw me in the parking lot" makes me believe the other story...the story that you called the door guy a "N-gg--".    I would have punched you too.

You guys have quite a bit of time on your hands to sit in front of a computer and bash a business that wouldnt let someone get into a drunken stuper. If you are told you are not to drink anymore and need to leave, then you need to leave, no if ands or buts. You dont have the right to tell a business how much you can drink and when you can enter or leave their business. If the customer would have listened to the staff and left when they were asked to in a peaceful manner no confrontation would have occured. There is no reason to ask to speak with the 'boss' who was there, the door staff member asked you to leave and told you that you have had enough and thats it. Some of you people need to realize how to act in someone else's place of business. Some of you speak highly of, the owners, but dont realize when you disrespect any part of their business you are directly disrespecting them. Using a racial slur against an African American door staff member is not something to take lightly. The fact that no action by the offended the night of the altercation speaks volumes. If you really think you were unjustly desriminated against then do something about it, dont wait til the next day and spread lie after lie in a blog. Regardless if you think it is your word against theirs and beg for someone to fired over an altercation that YOU yourself provoked. Take a look in the mirror...

For the ID comment about the military ID and passports, you may not realize but just because you have a military ID it doesnt mean that any place of business has to serve you alcohol. Every bar has their own ID policy and can enforce it as they see fit. If you have your military ID then why wouldnt you have a drivers license to go with it? FYI some places wont allow customers that have had alcohol related driving offense into their bar, thats why they want to see a drivers license and not just a military ID. Not sure if thats the case with Shakespeares but it is not an unheard of policy regarding IDs.

I would like start by saying that in no way shape or form has the ownership or management of Shakespears Pub influenced me to make this blog entry and moreover I am making this entry of my own accord.

     It is my personal philosophy that when communicating with others we as people tend to do one of two things: We either are attempting to inform a person(s) about particular facts of an issue, subject, or situation OR we are attempting to convince others to accept, prescribe, and subscribe to our own opinions and points of view which I trully believe is what is the foundation of this blog. My reasoning for making this entry is not to personally attack the gentlemen who was involved in Monday's incident or to sway the opinions of those who read this. Rather my intent is to bring clarity, honesty, and most importantly an end to a situation that has been blown completely out of proportion. I am one of the two (and I repeat two) doormen on staff that night that was involved in the incident in question. On Monday May the fifth, I and a member of management on staff that night had observed that the gentleman in question (under bar standards) was too intoxicated to be in the establishment. After asking the gentleman if he had a tab to settle with the bar, I informed him that he was being asked to leave for the night because of his level of intoxication. He asked me if my boss told me to remove him and I replied yes. He then approached my manager and asked what was the basis of him being removed and the manager replied with the same response. After sometime of repeatedly informing the gentleman that he had to leave, that this was not a joke, and that he could not re-enter the bar to find his sister he replied and I quote," This is bullshit, im going to finish my beer and find my sister then leave" and proceeded to push me out of his way. He was physically removed from the premises and in the process of this was struck once by myself. While this was going on there were demeaning words exchanged between the manager the gentleman in question and myself. Please keep in mind the climate and the nature of the situation and ask yourself, when was the last time you witnessed a physical altercation amongst men and polite and non-offensive language was present? I will admit that I personally am ashamed of the way that I (as a staff member) vocally conducted myself, and as an individual I do sincerely apologize to the gentleman who was involved if I made any demeaning statements that offended him. However, this incident had absolutely NOTHING to do with "gay-bashing" or anything that may in any way resemble "gay-bashing", and moreover I would like to include now that both sides of the story have been made public, it would be appreciated if individuals after reading this still feel a need to boycott Shakespears Pub...Don't!!! Rather boycott me. Voice your disconcerns, feelings and opinions about this situation to me, if you so choose to my supervisors. Ask for my job to be taken away from me, but PLEASE do not make the owners and the employees of shakespears pub pay for my actions. As an African-American I have experienced more than my fair share of discrimination and exclusion from certain circles and "gay-bashing" and ALL other forms of prejudice, dicrimination and intolerance I take very seriously and do not subscribe to hence my entry to this blog. Scott , Ted and the entire staff there have been nothing but good to me since i've become an employee of Shakespears pub and in addition I sincerely regret that this unfortunate incident has come to this point. I would also like to make an apology to any person who is of an gay or lesbian preference and has been offended by this incident. Shakespears pub is a great establishment with an awesome staff (and pizza!!!) and Scott and Ted (in my opinion) are proof that there are still good people in the world. I thank any and all who have taken the time to read this entry and hear my side of the story.

Excellent words, Corey.

I appreciate your forthrightness and your accepting of responsibility. As Angie stated earlier (commet #24), we're not a vindictive crew here. Most of us recognize the general folly of humanity and accept it with generous glugs of self-effacement, humor and liquor. As far as I'm concerned, this situation was handled with the gravity it warranted. I don't think I'll have a problem chooglin at Shakes again. 

just wow. This is the first I've heard of that. Would you believe that someone who lives with two lesbian African Americans would say something like that? Stop with the threats please.

I really appreciate that and I accept your apology.

Tawana Brawley?????

Is it time for a group hug?  Or maybe just a handshake.  Either way,  it just goes to show what communication can do. 

Lift embargo. 

I've been avoiding any commentary here on this whole danged thread, but I've gotta get this off my chest.  I thought from the beginning that it was AWFULLY rash and premature to post something about this publicly with an inflammatory subject heading guaranteed to land on google without hearing both sides of the story first.  Wouldn't it have been more fair to issue a private email among friends and ask people who wanted to email the business in question about the incident before going extremely public with it? The whole story seemed  weird and questionable from the get go.  Not knowing either party involved, I didn't feel like I could rush to any sort of judgement because I WASN'T THERE. Obviously, something happened, but there's always two sides to every story.

I'd like to implore my fellow leppolites to refrain from blowing up and using real names (whether of people or businesses) on the forum unless you were a firsthand witness to an outrageous act or bad service or whatever. The forum's already suffering from everybody being too busy acting like grownups and actually working at work to post more fun stuff.  let's not go so far in the other direction that we become a hotspot of yellow journal-blog-ism. We've all been bitten on the ass from a lack of tact and subtlety on the public forums in the past, whether from unthinkingly using people's real names and speculating about the causes of their demise or from just thoughtlessly talking shit.  I'm not pointing fingers--I've done it without thinking, too, and then regretted it. 

I'd like to apologize to Shakespeare's for the flaming by my own crew. The internet is a bitch sometimes. I've never had any issues with your business, other than those painfully dinky backless stools along the west wall tables.

I'm also sorry that D. has experienced whatever he experienced and hope that he understands that I'm not trying to discredit him.  Like I say, I wasn't there, so it's not for me to say.  I'm also sorry that your name was initially posted here. 

That's all.  Peace out.

HUG LIFE

i think a group hug is needed.....no one deserves abuse..and go eat ....its friday.

This is Ted from Shakespeare's Pub

To ensure that we are never faced with an unfortunate experience such as this again, Shakespeare's will be holding a meeting with our entire staff on diversity in the workplace.  It will be a private meeting, and we will cover our expectations of them.

For those of you that have been so supportive of our little Pub, Thank you. 

Shakespeare's was created to be YOUR gathering place.  For EVERYONE.  We appreciate that you come through our doors each and everyday.  You will never know how sorry we felt that you were burdened with this terrible event.  We do not believe our staff member's to be dishonest people.  We believe them to be people with integrity, and we are proud to have them be a part of our family.  We will deal with our staff member's involved in this situation in a private matter, as to respect them, and in no way are we suggesting that they were right or wrong.

We will continuously strive to offer a place for you to come and take time away, just to enjoy. 

If there is anything further I can do, please feel free to contact me via email or phone. 

Thank you again,

Ted

Shakespeare's Pub

shakespeares@charter.net

(269) 488-7782

Its funny how it is so eagerly accepted that the supposedly drunk asshole got beaten up and kicked out. Sorry guys - when I posted before I purposefully gave the pub the benefit of the doubt and they still come out at fault; why? because Corey went too far and hit the patron.

I've worked security, I've know perhaps some of the best bouncers in Detroit - bottom line good bouncers don't hit people. This is the perfect example - how did hitting this guy - no matter what he said or did - help the situation? Quite obviously it made things exponentially worse. The fact that you exchanged demeaning comments makes it even worse. Again I disagree with what this staff thinks is within their rights - I am a grown ass man - I have been called all sorts of things and it has never compelled me to return verbal fire; not cause I'm Ghandi but because I know full well it will only make things worse. If you're a bouncer how do you expect drunk people to talk to you when you're kicking them out? If you're so sensitive that you feel this was a reasonable reaction then you should stay away from security services.

Once again there are two sides of the story but the pub's side of the story (as told by Corey) totally glosses over the facts of assaulting a customer. Don't get me wrong I commend you for being forthright with your identity and your involvemnt but I would be disappointed if your employers think this is a resolution.

Ted if you're serious about this not happening again and again then hire bouncers that don't hit people; its really not as far-fetched as you might think. That is exactly what real bouncers do; they don't insult people, they don't drink on the job, and they don't put your business or themselves in situations like this.

"He was physically removed from the premises and in the process of this was struck once by myself. While this was going on there were demeaning words exchanged between the manager the gentleman in question and myself. Please keep in mind the climate and the nature of the situation and ask yourself, when was the last time you witnessed a physical altercation amongst men and polite and non-offensive language was present?"

This was not just a physical altercation amongst men; you aren't three guys that just happened to be involved in a scuffle. You are on staff at an establishment to provide security and safety for your patrons. I've witnessed physical altercations but if there is a mature and professional bouncer involved I wouldn't expect them to make flagrant comments or strike someone - certainly not over being called a name (not even that one). I've definitely seen things go wrong and this would be yet another example.

As a bouncer - You should know the difference between knocking someone out and carrying someone out - the latter is not an assault it is a reasonable response to the nature of this sitaution. Remove the problem and be done with it. If there were two of you  kicking him out then I'm not sure why punching him was necessary- you outnumbered and outwieghed him. When you hit him were you expecting to change his mind?

Anyway - if you keep bouncing  use your hands and hold your temper; keep your fists to yourself and watch your mouth. Those are your rules - drunk people don't have any. It may not be fair but that's YOUR JOB.

Interesting events to be sure.  I wish so many  people wouldn't post as anonymous because it's hard to sort out who is who. 

What concerns me the most is how others (Becky & Micah) have come out from the woodwork to express concern about the establishment.  I don't know Micah, but Becky is a regular visitor here and has never posted anything like that to my knowledge before.  This alone gives me pause. 

On the other hand I give Ted the benefit of the doubt when he says that they're open to everyone.  If you take a look at their website about page:  http://www.shakespearespub.com/default2.asp?active_page_id=197

you see it right there in living pixels "...So our plans changed, and the search for a new home in Kalamazoo began.  We knew we wanted to create a casual gathering place where everyone would feel welcome..."

and there are their smiling faces, even a bit of diversity mixed in.

It's a tough call, but even if all that was said by both sides is true, a representative of the establishment saying"the boss said they didn't want any faggots in there" still creates a hostile atmosphere for customers who are gay or have gay friends.  Calling someone an Asshole however will work for just about anyone, and you retain a more proffesional bad-ass image.

Calling a staff meeting to express your expectations seems like a very good start.  Conducting your business in a private matter is understandable, this isn't my business, I'm just a customer, but now I'm a customer with hesitation and a lot of choices. 

Maybe the people who made those narrow minded comments were THRUSH agents!!!

It sure sounds like Ted and the other owners (with the cash they are RAKING in in that place) should get some cameras near the entrance of the place. I suppose if the offended party has accepted an apology, then that is great (I'm still not clear whether he called the doorman a ni66er or not, as raised bu anon. above - are you copping to that D??), but I am convinced that the door staff at the bar needs a little supervision and training. Someone above mentioned getting a security consultant. That might be a good idea.

Seems like that would be less trouble to CYA with a camera rather than fight it out on some internet site (or in court). It'll keep you door staff honest, and shut up drunks that want to complain the next day.

Actually, I'm really surprised that there aren't already security cameras covering that area.  Welcome to the 21st century, Mr. Business Owner.

Maybe you should gather that information before you comment on the use of security cameras. Or just run your mouth in a blog like others are doing...